Monday, December 25, 2006

Episode 33 - Podcast Xmas

PCX reviews Marvel Zombies #2-5
"How do you eat billions of people, anyway? Take one bite out of this person, then go kill the next ten?"
"Yeah. Because after you taste somebody, they lose their flavor. It's like bubble gum."


Anonymous Starhawk said...

"Because nothing says X-mas like Marvel Zombies!" - TCM, Dec 2006

Wishing a very Merry pcX-mas to all! Tiene bien Navidad, y gracias por todos pescados!

- Starhawk.suckeredInto.theHoliday.madness

December 25, 2006 10:03 AM  
Anonymous Timmy THOOM! said...

Y'all always post these shows at the right time. I just listened to "return to planet of the apecast". (that was the only pcx I hadn't listened to yet and that is how desperate I was for a show. But that episode was actually pretty good. I'll post on it later.)

Anyways, I am feenin' for another epsiode as I get ready to take a bath. Nothin' relaxes like the dulcet tones of TCM's mysognistic witticisms or the repressed anger in Wicked Truth's voice. So I was gonna go back and listen an old show-maybe the Lucifer #4 episode- when lo, and behold, like a present under the tree, or a goodie in da stocking above the fireplace, I find a NEW episode of PCX on Christmas Day! Ho Ho Ho Mutha#$&%!

December 25, 2006 8:23 PM  
Blogger Trenchcoat Mafia said...

Thanks, Tim; your post made my own day, especially since someone has finally apparently appreciated the sheer lunacy of episode 8.

I was wondering how many people would actually download the new ep. on Xmas day itself; surprisingly, it turns out that there are a lot of Podcast X-listening, non-Christmas-obsessed heathens out there (and good on all of you!)

December 26, 2006 8:35 AM  
Anonymous Starhawk said...


Those would be dedicants to the House of Podon!


For those of you who still have not learned to listen past the "out-tro" song, be forewarned that Trenchcoat Anti-Christ has hidden this episodes's Boons To The Listeners (after only 11 takes) to the end of the podcast.

Has anyone seen the First Adopted Daughter of Podon around here? Naked?

December 26, 2006 10:42 AM  
Blogger Charles said...

I tend to agree with your conclusions. I thought it was kind of a lame conclusion, especially since Galactus went down like a punk. And I did pay for it. The concept was cool. Also, I was really into Marvel Team-Up (also done by Kirkman) at the time. I still think you guys should review Reiko the zombie shop. You'll love it, trust me :)

Oh, btw, I think it's cool that you guys reviewed an entire mini-series. I'd actually like to see more of this sort of thing in future podcasts. Maybe Beyond? Or...dare I request it.....Secret wars II!

December 27, 2006 11:34 PM  
Blogger X MCTREKKIE said...

Secret Wars II! Yeah- Cause we all remember how much Trencho likes the Beyonder. (See Podcast X Episode 12)

OR Maybe they can just talk some more about how lame the Sentry seems to be.

Starhawk is right- Marvel has no reliable Superman icon, (and maybe that's as it should be)

Welcome back Charles.


December 28, 2006 11:42 AM  
Anonymous The House of Thoom! said...

Sentry isn't neccesarily supposed to be Supes, IMHO.
Sure, he is a take on the caped square jawed superhero. But this "take" takes Sentry on a totally different path than that Big "S" at DC. Sentry is a schizo, an ex-junkie and is totally unpredictable. He has literally has a dark side...and also a human side that supes doesn't. Trench did you read any of the Sentry mini by Paul Jenkins (Frontline, Generation M)? I think you'd dig it.

For some reason a clerk at my LCS thinks that the two powerful Marvel Heroes that will shake up the Civil War aren't the Hulk and Thor. He says it is Sentry and...Captain Marvel. I keep hearing rumors that they are bringing Cap Marvel back, which would be a mistake on the 'ressurecting Uncle Ben and Gwen level'....

PS: Thanks for the shout out!

December 29, 2006 12:54 AM  
Blogger Trenchcoat Mafia said...

Y'know, Trekkie told me that Sentry mini was a winner, but I have to be honest: everything I've seen of the character in other books has pretty much left me cold.

Let's just say I like the Sentry as you described him a lot better than the whining basket case Bendis and company have given us.

As far as Captain Marvel, just the thought of bringing Mar-Vell back has got to be the worst idea in the history of bad ideas (mind you, I used to think the same thing about Bucky, and Brubaker's proven me wrong on that one). Now, if they want to bring Genis back, on the other hand, I'm all for it.

...and Tim, I'm answering your post in the thread for #21 here, because frankly, I'm interested in seeing what everyone else thinks about the (to me) bizarre "no smoking in our comics, please" edict at Marvel:

To wit:


I think you've mentioned Joey Q's 'no smoking' policy on several episodes, several times each. And each time you speak of this policy as one would speak of a man who eats babies.

What's the big deal? I can't even remember a time when any Marvel characters smoked, ever. And I don't remember DC 'lighting up' until this year. And whenever I see Renée Montoya or Detective Chimp light up, I have the same reaction as I would if they had Montoya eat shit."

To which, I've first got to list, just off the top of my head:

Reed Richards and Bruce Banner: (former!) pipe smokers.

Ben Grimm, "Jack Kirby", J. Jonah Jameson, Nick Fury, and Howard the Duck: (former!) cigar smokers.

Wolverine, Gambit, and Jessica Jones: (former!) cigarette smokers.

As for DC, Doc Magnus has always smoked a pipe, Perry White has often smoked cigars, and John Constantine chain smokes cigarettes so badly, they did a whole story arc about it!

I don't smoke (tobacco) myself, but Quesada's policy just irks the living shit out of me.

People smoke. They drink. They curse. They fuck. I've always been a Marvel fan in large part because their characters were depicted at least slightly more realistically than DC's.

How depicting an admittedly annoying commonplace act like smoking is any worse than showing the level of ultraviolence, bloodshed and death you'll find in your typical Marvel title (and don't get me wrong, I'm all for funnybook mayhem!), I have no idea.

Any kid that takes up smoking because he sees Wolverine lighting up needs to be Darwined out of the gene pool, anyhow.

Also, I have it on good authority that Q does indeed eat babies; and in Montoya's defense, she only eats shit to get the taste of Batwoman's pussy out of her mouth.

Yes, it's that rank.

December 29, 2006 1:11 PM  
Blogger X MCTREKKIE said...

Yes, I must agree with myself.

Sentry miniseries: Good

Sentry as a recurring character: eh, not so much.

And as for smoking, (as with my feeling on the whole Civil War thing)-

Liken the no smoking policy to a canary in a coal mine- in that it indicates something more insidious within the current Marvel editor mindset.

"If we reconstruct it, they will come"

But they LOST ME.

Heck, I'd rather play DC's 52 comic stickup than read most Marvel from the last 3 years*

*except for a few Ultimates and that Great Doom one-off series.

From my neophyte perspective -

Something is fundamentally wrong in the Marvel U, and it's up to you and Trencho to set it right.


I seem rather passionate about this.

Maybe I should start a PodCast ;-)

December 29, 2006 6:59 PM  
Blogger Vixen said...

Hey y'all...Kudos to the boys for putting up this special Podcast in time to whet Timmy Thoom's appetite (and we're gonna help Wicked with her repressed anger, we really are). Charles, welcome back. But anyway, enough about this blog----check out my blog, folks!! New and fresh just for y' on it on the Podcast X page.

Just remember---I strive to be the "nice one"..

December 30, 2006 2:50 AM  
Anonymous THOOM! said...

Hi Sexen...I mean Vixen. I will be checking out the blog. This is like what, your 5th entry in as many months? Very prolific :)

Trench and Trekkie;
I don't find fault with Joe Q's idea. I don't think it's a case of a "slippery slope". Maybe he doesn't want Marvel to be a free commercial for the tobacco industry. Maybe he knew someone who is battling or has died from cancer.

Many would probably agree that Joe Quesada's "no smoking" policy beats Jim Shooter's "no gay heroes" policy of the 80s. Even though Northstar was created by John Byrne to be gay, he couldn't "come out" until Shooter was ousted from Marvel...

(Ironically, Shooter did create some of the first openly gay characters in the MU, featured In an early 80s issue of Hulk Magazine: They were bunch of homosexuals who tried to rape Bruce Banner in a YMCA shower...They tried to get in his ass, but he "Hulked-Out" on their asses. It was a controversial 'issue' at the time. I point this out because in episode #26, Trench talked about Shooter's Draconian ways, and I'm surprised he never mentioned this in any episode. Wow, Could I have actually discovered an interesting comics anecdote that TCM didn't know about?)

December 30, 2006 3:37 AM  
Blogger X MCTREKKIE said...

Sexen! You blogged again?! Cool-

I'm starting to run out of energy for my PCX spinoff blog, so it's about time someone else picked up the baton.

Oh honourable Lord of the House of Thoom: I beg your indulgence for a moment-

I'm willing to bet Trencho knew, but dropped it because I'd made him conscious of so many Tangents in his PodCasts.

Interesting about the Banner/Hulkout and the Evil Gay Stereotype. For Shame Jim Shooter! (Perhaps he'd been touched by 'Uncle Ben' Shooter in the No-No place while lil' Jimmy was still drawing comic strips back on the farm)

I still have a hard time with the reality of Marvel. I mean, like 9-11 happened in the MU, right? Crying Dr Doom and all that. ~3000 dead... but you can't show a cig now and again?

How about from Parker to Tony as Stark is lighting up a smoke after a huge battle where he almost died? (His iron could sill be smoldering) - "You know Tony, that stuff 'll kill you" etc.

IMO, the MU should not be the Stepford universe or Disney- Smoking is bad for ya, but not as bad as the assholes like Kingpin, Marvel Universe) or the Gov't spying on us (Patriot Act- OUR UNIVERSE) etc. even Disney created Miramax, so that Adult messages could get out there.

Anyway, these are minor points. I'm still trying to get my head around the Civil War thing.

December 30, 2006 9:07 PM  
Anonymous Starhawk said...

Smoking; bad. Will you sissies stop bitching that somebody out there gives a shit and is trying to do "their little part". Incidentally, any "pro smoking" message is not an adult message; it is an irresponsible message. That being said: HEY, MARVEL! - you wanna give Starhawk adult? - expose the fact that Aunt May is, was and always has been a closet cigarette smoker, and let her die of lung cancer. Then let Peter make a deal with Satan to bring her back. After all, he's willing to make deals with Tony Stark...

Homosexuality; good. It opens the door for Starhawk being able to fuck the alien bitches when they come down and take over this maladjusted little planet. We all know that if a battleship full of homosexual aliens entered orbit there would be no arguments put forth on who's god is bigger regarding their marital rights and rituals.

Marvel Sucks.
DC Rocks!
Anyone who disagrees should get a job in a podcast!

Happy New Year Podcast-X fans!

- Starhawk.acceptTheWordOfOneWhoKnows
(it's better for all that way)

December 31, 2006 3:48 AM  
Blogger X MCTREKKIE said...

Answers are never that simplistic.

To show reality as it is, does not mean you are pro that reality.

Whitewashing a problem does not make it go away. However, addressing it the long run.

A Corollary: I personally am in favour of showing/addressing homosexuality (Renee Montoya, et al)- I'm sure there are those in the moral majority that would oppose depicting homosexuality in comics.

Why am I even doing this?- Free Speech and Truth in advertising is Trencho's cause-celebre, not mine.

Come to think of it, we listen to a PodCast run a guy who calls himself "Trenchcoat Mafia." I mean, c'mon. Does that mean we support/condone the 90's (or more recent) horrible school shooting sprees?

Actually come to think of it- I did like Dr Monkeypants as a moniker better. It made me feel less ... uncomfortable.

From now on, I will not validate or refer to your horrible full "nom-de podcast". I will, instead, call you .Trencho.

There. Now I am a good person.

oh. oops.

That's what I've been doing all along.

December 31, 2006 9:47 AM  
Blogger T Mafia said...

re: "free commercial for the tobacco industry" - I just can't agree with this whole line of thought where showing something means that you're automatically endorsing it, somehow.

Shooter actually tried to defend his story with the lisping gay rapists in The Comics Journal #60, claiming the scene was based on something that happened to a friend (hmm...)

December 31, 2006 10:00 PM  
Anonymous THOOM! said...

re: "free commercial for the tobacco industry" - I just can't agree with this whole line of thought where showing something means that you're automatically endorsing it, somehow.

This is all moot now, brotha..I was just recording a recap of Civil War:War Crimes for THOOM! and while going through the story "on-air" so to speak, I came across a scene in which Hammerhead lit up and smoked a cigar! Are you sure this policy wasn't just an Urban Legend? Or maybe the villians can smoke and the heroes can't... Or maybe Joe Q. got wind of your ribbing, realized the whole policy was ridiculous, and dropped it.

Trechcoat said:
"the scene was based on something that happened to a friend (hmm...) "

A friend...yeah. And they were LISPING...Sounds like a Jack T. Chick publication.

December 31, 2006 10:57 PM  
Blogger Vixen said...

Hey, Timmy Thoom and MC Trekkie---"Sexen"...I like it!!! I like it a lot!! I am blushing soooo hard right now...I feel so honored, and loved....Kisses to you, and put them wherever you wish...By the way, I'm trying to get better about keeping up my blog...I need to get my, uh, creative "juices" flowing more often...heh heh...

January 01, 2007 7:29 AM  
Blogger T Mafia said...

Tim, you had me thinking that maybe the smoking thing was an "urban legend" (because I have no explanation for the Hammerhead scene), so I Googled the following:
/JoeFridays43.html which JQ lays out and (poorly) defends the policy.

And, Joey Q, if you are paying attention to us here, stop eating babies!!!

Looking forward to the new THOOM.

January 01, 2007 8:12 PM  
Anonymous THOOM! said...

I think it's a good enough defense and I understand why Hammerhead was 'allowed' to smoke. It's explained here when Joe says:

"My Wolverine, the Wolverine in my world, he doesn’t smoke, he’s too cool for it....Bad guys, villains, they can smoke all they want, hopefully the symptoms will catch up with them. "

January 01, 2007 8:49 PM  
Blogger gojiragirl said...

It was nice to hear a podcast that somewhat focused on the comics, rather than the usual witty reparte covering breasts, vaginas, and rape.

Sex in the comics? Sure. The characters are human, after all. But sexuality is a part of humanity. Humanity is not defined by sexuality. After the initial blood rush, there needs to be some substance to hold the attention. My most humble opinion, podcast sensei.

January 02, 2007 9:20 AM  
Blogger T Mafia said...

Hmm...maybe Hammerhead's mother smoked while she was pregnant with him, and that's why his head looks like that.

Gojiragirl (thanks for the link on yr site, btw): as far as the sex issue goes, I suspect Starhawk and/or Vixen might have something to say on the matter; pardon me if I hang back and wait for one or both of them to entertain me-- I mean, respond to you first.

January 02, 2007 9:39 AM  
Blogger X MCTREKKIE said...

Gojiragirl, et al -

You realize that All we're doing is increasing the pressure on Vixen to do a podcast with Trencho that knocks it out of the park.

How in the world does anyone do a podcast with TM that would be considered informative, yet sublime?

Well I'm off to catch up on my THOOM Podcast.


January 02, 2007 11:33 AM  
Blogger Charles said...

Trekkie, Vixen: Thanks for the welcome back. It's nice to be missed :)

As for homosexuality in comics, I'm of the opinion that when they make an existing character a lesbian (Hi Renee), it means the character's creatively bankrupt, and this is a maneuver to make the character interesting again.

Frankly, tho, DC really screwed up after Infinite Crisis. Nothing fucking changed. They had a lot of potential, and they pissed it away on nothing. Superman-1's dead. It would've been AWESOME to keep him around. Hell, I would've liked to have had Earth-2 back. I loved IC #1, but every issue after that was a bit more of a letdown. I'm reading the DC showcases (gotta love goofy silver age DC awesomeness), and the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe (cause this way, I don't have to read the shit marvel craps out), but that's it for mainstream comics.

Also, I'm gonna keep pushing for you guys to review Reiko the zombie shop (there's a torrent out there, just do a search. I think it's reiko zombieya.) You guys will love it, I assure you.

PS: Trekkie, if only you would do a podcast again. You and Trenchcoat are still my favorite team-up.

January 02, 2007 1:34 PM  
Blogger X MCTREKKIE said...

Whattaya say, Trencho... once more unto the breach, dear friend?

Hey, what is that rhythmic thumping I hear off in the distance? ... Schooly's CBH War drums?

Well, this time with Charles and Thoom! at the Helm and Navigation stations-

Maybe one more time, gentlemen.

TM- please pass out the honorary West Coast Team X badges, post haste.

BUT Not before we all hear Vixen's Dulcet tones.

Can she tame the Trenchcoat "Voice of Shame"?

Tune in soon.

January 02, 2007 9:35 PM  
Anonymous THOOM! said...

"It was nice to hear a podcast that somewhat focused on the comics, rather than the usual witty reparte covering breasts, vaginas, and rape."

Yes. I love this show and it's tangents, but sometimes the crude sexual politics can be a bit much. I say this after hearing show #24 again. Harsh.

Upon this listening to that episode again, I'd like to take back what I said about Wickie's repressed anger--Ain't nothin' repressed about it.

With that said, there are few podcasts that I can replay over and over again like a George Carlin CD: Keith and the Girl(w/Patrice), THOOM! and PODCAST X. And Thanks for the shout out Trekkie.

I tried listenin to Comic Book Haters again..That 70s episode .......Sigh :(

January 02, 2007 10:00 PM  
Anonymous THOOM! said...

"As for homosexuality in comics, I'm of the opinion that when they make an existing character a lesbian (Hi Renee), it means the character's creatively bankrupt, and this is a maneuver to make the character interesting again."

I agree Obsidian, Renee...The new BatWoman,whose only 'interesting' trait supposedly was her lesbianism. Wasn't she one of Montoya's girl toys, following Montoya around, and being all hurt over her? How can you be a superhero AND emotionally co-dependent? (I'm looking at you Ivan "Super Ex-Girlfriend" Reitman)

January 02, 2007 10:13 PM  
Blogger X MCTREKKIE said...

Ok, so if Rorschach, (I mean The Question) morphs his visage into that of a woman ... and Renee goes for it, is she still gay?

Isn't she a refugee from Batman TAS, anyhow?

(BTW Can anyone definitely clear this up? - she appeared in '92 in both TAS and Detective comics 651)

Does anyone take Harley Quinn, (also of TAS) any kind of this serious? I keep thinking that Harley Quinn is gay EXCEPT for the Joker, and that's unrequited, so... like there you go.

Speaking of smoking again, (and we weren't) Batwoman is, like smokin' hot- and, like, her character is ridiculous and I don't care. Maybe she can just stand there and pose for my amusement.

Fuck it. StarHawk should just do a "Hot or Not" special edition one shot 'cast X.

Donde Estas, StarHawk?

Trekkie tienes razon, o no?

January 02, 2007 11:35 PM  
Blogger T Mafia said...

Charles, you definitely want to "stay tuned" in the months ahead. I will say no more, so as to maintain an appropriate aura of mystery about All That Which Is To Come.

Tim, my own favorite "Wrath of Wicked" ep. is probably #30, since that one came oh-so-very-close to breaking out into a sexy, clothes-rending catfight between WT and Vixen.

January 03, 2007 4:53 PM  
Blogger Charles said...

Hey, if episodes 22 and 29 didn't drive me away (Although episode 31 did for a bit. Sorry Vixen and Wicked Truth) you can't ever get rid of me Trenchcoat. (and boy howdy, episode 29 is the podcast that tests men's souls. If a fan can make it through 29, they're a fan for life. Probably for eternity, cause anyone who listens to that episode is going to hell.)

January 03, 2007 7:13 PM  
Blogger X MCTREKKIE said...

Charles and company-

just stay tuned, is all.

TM has not even found his own nadir of taste. (but from what I gather from my stringers/sources... evil is afoot!)

January 03, 2007 11:23 PM  
Blogger Vixen said...

Okay, okay....I must address a couple of things: 1) I was not on episode 31 of the podcast. 2) As for episode 24 being raunchy, it was because it started out as a private convo b/tween the three of us, and plus, given the comic we were reviewing was very, very adult, sex was going to come came up in the comic, and in our talk....please understand that when we talk about sex on this show, it does have some relevance to what we're reviewing...but, I have noticed that when the boys discuss things such as the boob counter and anal rape, that doesn't seem to warrant the same type of response as opposed to when the ladies do this on our shows w/ TCM. Double standards, perhaps? Hmm.... Personally, I like having these discussions and listening to such mentioning the boys doesn't mean I'm offended by what they say...they crack me up!I'm just a little disappointed in the constant backlash against the women for saying the same things that the men say. We're all adults here (or at least we're supposed to be). There's enough love (and/or blame) to spread around. And, for those of you who still feel some kinda way, please listen to my little speech at the beginning of epis #30. 'Nuff said. Addressing you all with tough love, Vixen.....

January 04, 2007 12:44 AM  
Blogger X MCTREKKIE said...

Vixen, I think that Starhawk has gotten his fair share too. Hell, I even called him Star Peacock!

And, now that I'm in the cheap seats, and don't have to record, I bust on TM (in my admittedly sublime way)every chance I get.

And GojiraGirl, and Kid Mission (each women, I assume) also put in their two cents re- the podcast as a whole.

Let's face facts- I think the PodCast is now permanently imbued with the scent of 'hawk and his sexedlic ways.

There is just no going back to the Halcyon days of Comic geeks just talking about comics.

PS- Remember, Vixen we all sent love via your blog- so no worries!

January 04, 2007 9:21 AM  
Blogger Charles said...

You weren't in episode 31, Vixen? I apologize then. I did a quick scan of the main page, to look for your guy's pink and yellow letting, I saw the pink in 31, and assumed it was the right choice. I forgot that you weren't in 31, so my apologies for blaming you.

As for the Starhawk and Trenchcoat.....Well, I don't like it when they do it, but I don't think I've ever complained about how raunchy the show was (except for the bathory episode. SHEESH!). My problem with 31 was that it...meandered too much away from the comic.

January 04, 2007 6:44 PM  
Anonymous Timmy THOOM! said...

I'm addicted. C-c-can't wait for the next PCX. Feenin'... Got the DTs. Sh-Sh-Sh-shakin. Like a crackhead.

Sh-Sh-Sh-Sh-Sh-Sh-She was shakin' [whoa-oh-oh-whoa-oh] Snappin' her fingers....[whoa-oh-oh-whoa-oh]
SHe was moooovin'round and round...

January 04, 2007 10:59 PM  
Anonymous T.Thoom said...

"She", in the song above= Vixen

January 04, 2007 11:00 PM  
Blogger Vixen said...

Timmy Thoom, look at you....back in love with me...(smile)....and I never fell out of love with you!Just let it be known that I still love y'all. Mc Trekkie, yes, thanks to both you and Starhawk for showing my blog love. Like I said, I love the show and the people involved...and I appreciate all views and opinions. I just feel that our humor and the way we choose to do the podcast is at times under attack and that we're put in the unfortunate position of defending ourselves. However, I do understand that our listeners are listening to the podcast to hear reviews of comics,not to always hear our saucy talk. But, I hope that you all do look at our talks as icing on the cake! (smile). And, just to let you all know, TCM and I just finished recording epis #35..coming soon!

January 05, 2007 2:19 AM  
Blogger XantesFire said...

PCX: The Classics Tour.

Perhaps Johnny Blaze is the zombie and it carries or as I speculated previously, he had transparent demon flesh.

Again, covers had a better story.

Remember Galactus is not suppose to be a fighter, that's why he uses a Herald. He's basically a guy walking into a room filled with roaches, he'll simply stomped them but these are roaches with a gun. He should have set up his force fields, robot army and other protections as he went about devouring Earth, guess he's just that unlucky exterminator who didn't put on the proper equipement only to end up devoured by roaches.

That's something else I don't like about this story, it seems to be written with an ending already there but not much thought to how to get there or the consequences other that the desired ending. Why didn't Galactus turn? Why can't they figure out they don't need to constantly feed? How did they eat the Earth in less than a week? How does the virus know who to turn?

The reason you don't remember anyone smoking in DC is because it was part of their character and not a wrongly looked upon habit. Gordon used to smoke a pipe all the time, Batman even gave him one for Xmas. Batman used to smoke a pipe in the 40's and 50's. I think Green Arrow used to too, but I think that is part of millionaire/superhero relaxing in their mansion, smoking a pipe stereotype. Sgt Rock smoked. I think in DC smoking a cigarette usually meant a person was nervous or small time crook. Cigars for bigger crook and people under high pressured jobs like Perry White. And pipes for millionaires.

"How can you be a superhero AND emotionally co-dependent? (I'm looking at you Ivan "Super Ex-Girlfriend" Reitman)" It can be argued that they are superheroes because they wish for adoration. Maybe not from the masses, maybe not even from someone alive. (See Batman)

May 20, 2011 9:58 AM  

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